Episode 18

Songs of Survival, Art, Healing & Finding Yourself with author Monica McCollough

You're in for a treat with today's visit with Monica McCullough, the author of the debut novel "Songs of Lost Things: Sonata for the Sun." We'll discuss the book's themes of family dynamics, self-discovery, and the role of music in the story. Join in as Monica shares insights into her inspiration, the development of her characters, and her journey as an independent author. As a first-time self-published author, Monica has some tips for other aspiring authors about the publishing process. Tune in for an engaging and insightful conversation about storytelling, artistry, and the power of literature.

If you order your copy of "Songs of Lost Things," from Monica's website, you will receive a signed copy! Visit her website here: https://monicamccollough.com/

The summer Lavender turned twelve, she was eager to dip her toes into the world of make-out sessions with her school crush and late-night misdeeds with her best friend in their raucous Newark, NJ neighborhood. Instead, her father had other plans...musical plans. He wanted to continue cultivating her gifted melodic mind and nudge her to begin preparing to apply to the local Arts Magnet High School.

Lavender suddenly finds herself cast into an unrecognizable and dispiriting world where she fights to maintain her sense of self, connection to her musical gifts, and footing inside her own family dynamics.

Years later, as a woman in her thirties who never reckoned with how much of herself she'd relinquished in her tumultuous adolescence, Lavender meets a younger man who reminds her of what she's lost...and what she's surrendered. Captivated by his charm, yet apprehensive of his interest, she's upended in unexpected ways. The mental health struggles she's managed to mildly overcome is ever present as ghosts from her past continuously appear. Love tries to find her as she finds herself.

Will she reemerge from it all with her full self: stable, whole, and accepting of the love she deserves?

Or will she fall back into the cycle of old habits and questionable choices that persisted and framed her reality for decades?

If you're looking for a coming of age story focused on self-acceptance, overcoming trauma, and letting go of the past to move forward to the future, then this is the book for you!

Find this and other recommendations at The CultureLit online BookShop and support independent bookstores at Visit my bookshop!

Culture Lit is a community celebrating black women and black love, and a reminder that black women deserve joy, love success, second chances, and all the beautiful magic the world has to offer.

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Let me know what you’re reading, what you’re thinking, and what you’re thinking about what you’re reading.

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Transcript
Octavia Marie:

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Culture Lit.

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I'm your host, Octavia Marie, and today I

am thrilled to welcome Monica McCullough,

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author of the Powerful Debut n Songs

of Lost Things, Sonata for the Sun.

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If you love books that are deeply

emotional rich with family dynamics,

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self discovery, and powerful

storytelling, then you are in.

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Monica's debut novels.

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Songs of lost things.

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Sonata for the Sun is a breathtaking

coming of age story that allows

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Lavender, a young girl with gifted

musical mind, navigating love,

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loss, and the weight of her past.

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This book had me completely

hooked from the storytelling to

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the complex relationships, and

let's not even get started on.

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Monica weaves music into the fabric

of the story in such a brilliant

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way, making it feel like an

integral part of lavender's journey.

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And Monica isn't just an

incredible storyteller.

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She's also a very talented

visual artist who created the

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striking cover art for her book.

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Today we'll explore the journey of

her protagonist Lavender, discuss

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the themes of music, identity, and

self-discovery that run through the

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novel, and getting insights into Monica's

experience as an independent author.

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So grab your tea, cozy

up, and let's get into it.

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Monica, we've been trying to get

this interview done forever, so.

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before I kind of get into the

interview, let me just share a

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brief summary with the audience.

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Songs have lost things.

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For our listeners who haven't had the

pleasure reading it yet, this novel

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follows lavender and musical gifted

young girl whose life is upended when

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her father's plans to nurture her

talent collide with her own desires

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to experience the typical adventures.

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As a woman in her thirties who never

kind of fully reconciled with her

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past lavender, meet someone who

reminds her of everything she's

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lost and everything she surrendered.

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And I think it's kind of like a

beautifully crafted story around

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family identity and the courage to.

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Maybe reclaim your authentic self.

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So I guess for me, I wanna start

with the beginning of your, like your

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journey writing songs of lost things.

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It's such a powerful and layered debut.

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Was the storytelling always something you

wanted to pursue, or what was the moment

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when you knew you had to write this book?

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Monica McCollough: well first

I wanna say I'm glad to finally

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be here because Yes, it has.

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It's been a while.

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It's been a journey for both

of us for various reasons.

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Yes, exactly.

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Yes.

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but as far as the story, the beginnings

of this story, I guess started with

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me all the way back in high school.

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Kind of like this, Visual or this vision

I had of this young girl or or young woman

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who just had all these musical gifts.

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and what that looks, like when that's

not, achieved or what causes that,

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what would cause someone to lose all of

that, and not live up to, what you would

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think she would become with all of these

gifts and creative abilities, that she

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possessed, like just like a gifted child.

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So it kind of shaped from that

just, You know, just someone who.

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You would think had everything just,

from a talent perspective should have

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achieved, if they weren't like a star

in some aspect as far as entertainment,

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they still had the abilities to achieve

a, a plethora of things, and they just

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did not, and what that looks like.

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Okay.

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From an internal and an external

standpoint because I think that's what

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happens to us in real life anyway.

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It's, it's both things.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know, so.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Octavia Marie: So that's

really fascinating 'cause your

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novel explores like several.

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Very powerful themes.

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Um, and I think many of us can probably

identify with one or more of these

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themes like addiction and family

bonds and generational trauma and

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self-discovery Which theme emerged

first in your writing process?

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and then how did you kind of

develop the other things around it?

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I guess just,

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Monica McCollough: I.

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Family trauma because I feel like,

you know, we're in this world and

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of the first obstacles that most

of us face are family dynamics.

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Mm-hmm.

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Whatever that ends up being.

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Mm-hmm.

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And so, that's where it came from.

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First, like, what would be the dynamics

around this individual who When people

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saw her or heard her or just mind blown,

and then they would look at her life and

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it just seemed like in shambles and kind

of like, how, how did that come to be?

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Octavia Marie: How did this person

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Monica McCollough: end up this this way?

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So, yeah.

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Octavia Marie: So with that, I

think you created such complex

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family dynamics in the novel.

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Were there, like any particular characters

who surprised you as you started

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writing and getting into the story?

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Or is there someone who maybe

took a larger role or developed in

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ways you hadn't initially planned?

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I believe the aunt, Elizabeth,

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Monica McCollough: You know, I

don't know how much I'm supposed to

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spoil or give away or whatever, but

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Octavia Marie: think a,

a little spoiler is okay.

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Monica McCollough: Okay.

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She, to me.

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Changed the most in a way.

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And I know that may, if anyone has

read it, it may seem like a long

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time coming or maybe she didn't.

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from the outside perspective,

it may not seem that way.

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She was still kind of this.

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Like caustic rigid individual, but mm-hmm.

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Mm-hmm.

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She, that was like an

outer shell in a sense.

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Really, when you look at how she began

to approach lavender and, um, chase

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later in the story, you can kind of tell

that she had softened a bit, but mm-hmm.

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That was just an outer thing for her.

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Yeah.

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Um, and then some and, and, and

some of that was mental health

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that she was also dealing with.

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Mm-hmm.

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But, you know, she reminds me of.

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A lot of people in my family, they

kinda of rolled into main character.

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Same.

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Octavia Marie: And I, I was, as

I was reading, I was like, mm.

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Right.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right.

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Kind of rolled into,

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Monica McCollough: kind of rolled

into one character and I ended

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up highlighting in the book.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I, I really ended up kinda liking where

she, ironically lavender ended up.

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'cause you would never have

thought that in a sense.

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Mm-hmm.

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Octavia Marie: yeah.

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She was that, yeah, her, her arc, her,

her character arc was I think I was more

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the most surprised by her character art.

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Monica McCollough: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I think that's what you

originally, originally asked.

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Who surprised me?

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The, the most?

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I think it was, I think

it was her, um, 'cause

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Octavia Marie: she, that was

her, it, it was her for me.

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And so I was like, I wonder if, if she,

like, did you mean to do or did it just

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evolve and that character involved into

some, or did you intend for her to evolve

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like that when you started writing her?

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Monica McCollough: I don't know how

I, yes, but ironically, I was speaking

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with someone a couple weekends ago about

characters, and this is kind of like, even

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as the author of the characters Surprise

you because you know, you give them a

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personality and a background and you put

'em in certain scenarios and they react.

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How they react.

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I, I, mm-hmm.

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I don't know how to explain it.

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Like they kind of just react.

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I get it.

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Yeah.

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They react how you would ex for them to

react given the personality you gave them.

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Um, but also it, it's a compilation

of their life experience too.

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All of that comes into it.

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And then, They evolve into who this person

is, even when, you know, you weren't even

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necessarily like writing it out in the

outline, like, this is who she'll be.

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No, she just kind of became that person.

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So, yeah.

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I get, yeah.

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Octavia Marie: So you, you talked about

earlier about lavender's, like her talents

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and, you know, she had so much going

on her re lavender's relationship with

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her guitar, it, it kind of felt like.

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There was like a representation of

both, like maybe freedom and then

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the burden throughout the novel.

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Monica McCollough: Yeah.

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Was that

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Octavia Marie: kind of duality

intentional or, what did you

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intend for it to symbolize?

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Monica McCollough: Yeah.

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it's kind of like, I'll put to

you, like, have you ever seen

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the movie, Good Will Hunting.

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Octavia Marie: Yeah, yeah,

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Monica McCollough: yeah.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Is there anyone who

hasn't seen this movie?

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I dunno.

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I, I, I had some family one time.

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This is funny, I'm getting off topic.

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Who said they never saw it?

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They said they never saw it because

they thought it was about a dog.

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No lie.

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I mean, they saw hunting,

goodwill, hunting.

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They was like, oh, this is about

a dog, like they never saw.

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I'm like, no, no.

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That's hilarious.

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it is, it's kinda like, I just think about

people who are so naturally gifted in

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certain things and they're given so many

things, um, in one particular area that.

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Uh, they love it and it's free to them,

but it's, it also can be constraining

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because then people put expectations

on them surrounding this thing.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, and that's kind of how, what

happened to Will in that store.

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But, you know, he, he also

had his issues, right.

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It, it, it is that, it's

like, I love this thing.

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I'm good at this thing.

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I'm my most free at this thing.

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But also when I do it, then it's like, oh,

we expect you to do this and to do that.

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And now it's, am I good enough to do

you like she almost does not wanna

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be tested in that particular way.

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Mm-hmm.

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Because now she's expected to be

this thing and you know, with her

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background and history, it's like,

I don't even know if I'm worthy.

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I.

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Of, these accolades or whatever

success would come with this.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, I don't know if I'm deserving of it.

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I don't know that I would know

what to do with it if I had

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it because I've never had it.

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Right.

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You know, this positivity in my life.

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So,

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Octavia Marie: okay.

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So the other thing.

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there's so much in this book and some

of the other elements that I kind of

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found very interesting is how you weaved

music throughout the storytelling.

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And I found myself like, oh

yeah, that was the, okay, okay.

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Is there a Spotify list?

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But like each chapter.

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Opens with a song title

that kind of sets the tone.

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So you have everything from Beyonce

to Tupac to Ella Fitzgerald.

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Can you walk me through like how

you selected these songs and,

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and kinda what they represent?

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Is it something personally

that represented or was it

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specifically, supposed to

represent something for lavender?

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Monica McCollough: the songs kind of.

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Summarize some of the chapters,

summarize what that block of her

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life or that part of the story.

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kind of felt like the feel of it.

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Some of it is symbolic of kind of

like, a particular song that was.

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prevalent in that part of the story.

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So maybe it doesn't represent that

part of the narrative, but, it

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was played at an integral part.

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of a band life or the stage,

or her dad played it in the,

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in that part of the story.

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Oh, okay.

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Octavia Marie: Okay.

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So

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Monica McCollough: it,

it's like a mixture.

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Of both of those things.

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Some of it, at least a couple of them

are a little kind of tongue and cheek

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when you know what the chapter is about.

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I could kind of think about one

chapter in particular where Rihanna

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is like the, the song at the beginning

of it, that it references money.

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Mm-hmm.

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And, and the chapter does have

money involved, but it's not like,

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You know, a significant role in

it, but it does reference money.

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So that was one of them that was kind

of tongue in cheek, but most of it

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is just kinda like the vibe of that

particular part of the narrative.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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In that moment and the feel of it.

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Octavia Marie: Yeah.

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'cause I found my Sometimes when I

would see the song, I'd be like, okay.

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And then I would go back after I read

the chapter and be like, okay, wait,

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is, is there something I missed?

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like, are there Easter eggs in this?

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Right.

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Find if, if I miss something because it's,

it is just such a deep and like, and then

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I found myself like, because it's such a

deep book and it covers so many powerful.

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Subjects I found myself

thinking, did I miss something?

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Did I go back?

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Okay, wait, did that mean something?

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So I, I really liked how you

weave the music into it also.

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Monica McCollough: Um, and then some

of the songs, not to interrupt you,

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but like some of the songs were kind

like, I heard them at the time and they.

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Inspire like an emotional

or evoked an emotion mm-hmm.

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In me that helped me write that

particular part of the story.

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So it it's all of that.

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Yeah.

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I'm wonder about that too.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Octavia Marie: So it's kind of part of,

part of the, the songs became part of

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the story and also part of your process.

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Monica McCollough: Right.

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And I didn't want it to be, so

I just wanted to, wanted it to

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feel kind of natural like that

in a mixture of all those things.

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Because I felt like if I sat down

and was kind of like, I'm gonna put

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this song with this chapter and this

song like it just felt too contrived.

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So, yeah.

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Octavia Marie: when I'm reading

sometimes, um, especially when I

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read, stories that the settings.

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are so vividly drawn.

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I find myself feeling like, oh, like

going back and maybe sometimes I'll

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research, I'll go back and look and I'm

looking for, you know, it makes some,

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I might note something 'cause I wanna

know if this exists so I can visit.

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And, and so the settings in your

book, you know, you have Newark.

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And Montgomery, there's also

some references to the Dakota are

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those, and it's so vivid when you,

like, I can almost like see myself

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visiting these, these settings.

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How much of your own experience

informed the Saints, or Did you do heavy

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research to kind of bring them to life?

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Monica McCollough: well, I'm from

Montgomery, so describing Montgomery and

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being in Montgomery was just natural.

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Like I know that, like the

back of my head, I chose Newark

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because Newark is the, the second.

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Place or location in the United

States where a, a large chunk

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of my maternal family is just

due to the, the great Oh, okay.

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The Great migration or

the first Great migration.

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Yeah.

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and so I wanted to tie that in.

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My mom stayed there for a, a while,

caretaking and all that type of

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stuff during the sixties, so That

I had to research, um, and draw on.

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'cause I have not been to Newark

specifically, but I've been to,

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uh, I've been through New Jersey,

I've been to New York and just.

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Researching that and some of my own

experience with just visiting and being up

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there briefly, I could, you know, describe

Newark as best as I could, I hope.

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Right.

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And as, as, and as far as the,

reservation, that was a lot of research

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trying to make sure that I did it justice.

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And because that.

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It is not part of my

ethnic background at all.

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So I wanted to very

respect, respectful, right?

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Octavia Marie: Mm-hmm.

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And

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Monica McCollough: research that

thoroughly, um, and pay Hamas to

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that part of, you know, US history as

well, that they're trying to erase.

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Octavia Marie: Every day.

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Mm-hmm.

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Monica McCollough: Before, right.

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Don't get

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Octavia Marie: started on another rant.

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Right.

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So we could be here.

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That's a whole nother

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Monica McCollough: another episode.

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Right.

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And then that, that also

was a part of kind of, um.

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Uh, the second wave, the second

great migration in a, in a sense.

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Mm-hmm.

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That's not, I don't think it's

spoken about as much, but the,

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the black population in the

south that moved out west.

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Mm-hmm.

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Uh, that was the, the ultimate

destination of one of the characters.

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Joshua's father was to try to get out

west from the, from the south, so.

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Just trying to be respectful of all

that history and all those locations and

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what they, they meant through time, so,

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Octavia Marie: okay.

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Okay.

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Look at you.

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So the theme in, song of Lost, I mean,

it's lost things, whether it is like.

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Like cultural identity,

self-worth relationships, and

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it's very strong in this book.

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And lavender struggles, I think with

her self, her sense of self, and

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that, that I found incredibly moving.

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how did you decide, like which

aspects of loss and identity you

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wanted to highlight in her story?

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I guess I.

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Monica McCollough: In a

sense, pull from my lack of.

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Self-confidence in many areas or,

imposter syndrome, but also just, oh,

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don't, don't get me started on that.

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but also thinking about what that

would look like when you add on

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top of that abandonment issues.

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And also taking on vast portion of this

book, she's like the responsible adult.

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Octavia Marie: Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Ironically.

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And we have the parentification

of Right children.

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Monica McCollough: Right.

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As irresponsible as she's portrayed and

thought of by so many people in her life.

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She was the one kind of holding

a lot of stuff together.

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And so just what that.

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Feels like over time, constantly having

to endure all that what what you think

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that you're deserving of what's worth.

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Mm-hmm.

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Even, trying to go after, because

so much so you've been abandoned by

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so many things, so many people that,

we're close to you that you loved and.

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It's like, why try, in a sense, there's

a sense of why try this thing, because

372

:

it's easier to not try this thing.

373

:

It's easier to think that, right.

374

:

I'm the undeserving in this.

375

:

It's never gonna work.

376

:

And I know the place that I'm in now.

377

:

I know that, and I'm, I

feel safety in that, so,

378

:

Octavia Marie: mm, yes.

379

:

Yes.

380

:

And, and then, and then there's

her complicated relationship

381

:

with her mother, which.

382

:

Like had me in shambles at times.

383

:

Really like, yes.

384

:

Like the tension between them

felt so real and you know, I'm

385

:

like, okay, don't get triggered.

386

:

Emotional walls, girl, emotional walls.

387

:

But it felt so real sometimes.

388

:

Like what was your approach

in writing their dynamic?

389

:

Monica McCollough: Well, I

will say that of all the.

390

:

narratives and themes in the book.

391

:

This might be, and not from a, a mother

daughter dynamic, but this might be one of

392

:

the things that's closer to something that

I understand and it's because I have, a

393

:

sibling who, had his issues and continues

to actually, but just for decades of my

394

:

life, in and out of those situations.

395

:

Constantly.

396

:

Like constantly.

397

:

Mm-hmm.

398

:

Mm-hmm.

399

:

And originally it was just kind of

like it's one thing for it to be a

400

:

sibling, but what is that like for

it to be someone so close to you as a

401

:

mother and how does that affect you?

402

:

For that to be your relationship.

403

:

Right.

404

:

For them to just never be

able to, like get it together.

405

:

Octavia Marie: Yeah.

406

:

Monica McCollough: Yeah.

407

:

Yeah.

408

:

Octavia Marie: I'm telling these, I,

I was like, Ooh, let me highlight, let

409

:

me come back there a couple of times

I was like, Ooh, lemme put this down.

410

:

Let me come back to this.

411

:

Um, I have, yeah.

412

:

No, seriously.

413

:

Yeah.

414

:

Okay.

415

:

Now, at one point I thought this

was going to be a romance novel.

416

:

But the story kind of takes like

an unexpected turn into self-love

417

:

and personal healing and that,

and that can be in a love story.

418

:

You know, I'm all about reclamation of

yourself and the self-love and all of,

419

:

uh, uh, self love and healing also.

420

:

But I, I, I did, you know, so I was

like, oh, okay, wait, we not going there.

421

:

What made you Takeda story in that

direction instead of like the, the quote

422

:

unquote traditional romance genre route?

423

:

Monica McCollough: Because I just didn't

feel like Lavender was ready for that.

424

:

Okay.

425

:

Well, not me.

426

:

Lavender was not ready for that.

427

:

Yeah.

428

:

Octavia Marie: I, and I was

like, are we gonna get there?

429

:

And I was like, okay, no, we gotta go.

430

:

So, but then that brings another,

I don't want it set because that,

431

:

that kind of brings it like,

are we gonna get another book?

432

:

Monica McCollough: You know,

maybe I, uh, this is my first.

433

:

Novel, like, you know, you

in, in your introduction.

434

:

I am primarily a visual artist and

have been visual artist all my life.

435

:

Uh, this story has been on my heart for a

minute, but, um, you know, I don't know.

436

:

I, I'm kind of like learning

as I go or feeling it as I go.

437

:

Okay.

438

:

There, there could be, I'll

be honest that the second.

439

:

Idea I had for a story was

not this or unrelated to this.

440

:

Okay.

441

:

So I just, I don't know.

442

:

I, the way I ended this story is kind

of open, so Yeah, because I'm like,

443

:

Octavia Marie: I was like, is

is she writing another one?

444

:

Because I, I feel like there's,

like, she, it, like you said, it,

445

:

it, it left so much open and I was.

446

:

Is there another book?

447

:

Because I, I'm flipping through

the page like, is this it,

448

:

are we done?

449

:

Right.

450

:

Um, but when you talk about also the

love, I mean you talking about the

451

:

romance and, but because I think we

gotta talk about the love interest.

452

:

Mm-hmm.

453

:

There's Chris, the stable and

emotionally available one.

454

:

Monica McCollough: Right.

455

:

Octavia Marie: And then there's

Caesar, the chaos and the temptation.

456

:

I was like, woo, boy.

457

:

I was like, oh, she

touching on all of it now.

458

:

Right.

459

:

What do you think kinda each of

them represents in lavender's life?

460

:

Like, I, I have my thoughts, but what

do you, what did you intend for them?

461

:

Or do they mean anything at all?

462

:

Or, is it just, you know, character

driven or do they represent

463

:

something in each part of her life?

464

:

Monica McCollough: Uh, they, they do.

465

:

Actually, I'll be interested in what

you think, since you said you No, well,

466

:

Chris, to me, is like an optimism.

467

:

Uh, potential, uh, a hopefulness or

hopefulness of what could be if she

468

:

released herself of like all these

burdens that she had mentally and, and

469

:

these chains she had from her past.

470

:

And Cesar is just.

471

:

You know, the status quo.

472

:

It's like what she knows is what she,

she feels like she's deserving of.

473

:

You know, she shows up and, and

she knows she can show up and do

474

:

the Caesar thing all day long.

475

:

It'll be fine.

476

:

That could just go on forever.

477

:

Uh, you know.

478

:

Octavia Marie: Yeah.

479

:

So, so I kind of, I, I feel like, as I

was reading it, Chris, for me, I think

480

:

represented like.

481

:

I think what, what we all have

some of the, the vulnerability we

482

:

have in, um, accepting or the fear

of accepting like the good stuff.

483

:

Mm-hmm.

484

:

Like, um, you know, we've had so much

of the bad stuff and, and, and I, I said

485

:

this recently, I don't know, I think I

saw there was this, like this me, me, cute

486

:

story trending on threads recently and.

487

:

the, the, the girl who was writing

the threads was, you know, everybody

488

:

was like, you know, why didn't

you do, you know, 5, 6, 7, 8?

489

:

And I think, um, and you know, for a

lot of us, we, we've been raised so

490

:

in, to be so hyper independent mm-hmm.

491

:

That.

492

:

It becomes like this kinda

self-protection thing.

493

:

And then we are so used to the

disappointment and, you know, the, the

494

:

chaos and temptation of Caesar that when

something like the Chris shows up, we,

495

:

we so used to that we, and so we saying,

we're saying no to the good stuff because

496

:

we're so used to the disappointment and

the norm and saying no to that good feels.

497

:

Safer than taking a chance on Chris.

498

:

So I like, I felt like Chris represented

like the chance of the good stuff.

499

:

Mm-hmm.

500

:

And Caesar represented, like you said,

the status quo and, and it's what

501

:

we're used to seeing and what we're

used to protecting ourselves against.

502

:

Monica McCollough: Right.

503

:

Because there's no, there's really no

threat, with Caesar and, and being hurt.

504

:

And if, and if he does.

505

:

do something that annoys you.

506

:

You really don't care because

it's Caesar like, you know,

507

:

it's like, I don't really care.

508

:

I don't have a lot of, yeah, I don't

have a lot of stake in this, but mm-hmm.

509

:

It gets, it gets me alone.

510

:

Yeah.

511

:

Versus Chris, it's kind of like,

wait a minute, like, mm-hmm.

512

:

I don't know this Chris situation,

I haven't had this good stuff in a

513

:

while and I don't want to commit in,

in a way I don't wanna commit to it

514

:

because then, That could fail and

devastate me more than anything else.

515

:

I, yeah.

516

:

I, I kind of wanna keep

my separation mm-hmm.

517

:

Octavia Marie: From it, you know?

518

:

Yeah.

519

:

That's, it was all that, and I, I

think that's the, when I was thinking

520

:

about, when I was thinking about

the Chris and Caesar, it also, I.

521

:

Like saying no to Chris or whatever

it feels like, control, like mm-hmm.

522

:

If you, if you say yes to it,

it feels like you are trusting

523

:

and you, and then, you know,

trust is a whole different thing.

524

:

Right?

525

:

Because that's when it really gets tricky.

526

:

And then, you know, that's, you have

to unlearn so much to be able to say

527

:

yes and to that, but that feels like

you, you, you're giving up the control.

528

:

But with Cesar.

529

:

You control that because you, you

already know what that brings.

530

:

Monica McCollough: Right?

531

:

Yeah.

532

:

And, and you know, like I was

saying, she just mentally at that

533

:

stage was not ready for Chris.

534

:

Mm-hmm.

535

:

Mm-hmm.

536

:

So, you know, maybe later

she, because she had, she

537

:

Octavia Marie: so much she has to unlearn.

538

:

Right,

539

:

Monica McCollough: right.

540

:

Yeah.

541

:

Octavia Marie: Did you always know.

542

:

How her romantic journey would

end, or did that surprise you?

543

:

Did you always intend for that, the

romantic journey to end like that?

544

:

Or were you surprised by it taking that?

545

:

Monica McCollough: I, I don't

think I was surprised by it.

546

:

Um mm-hmm.

547

:

Because it just felt like, like I

said, where she was in her life,

548

:

she, she was not ready for that.

549

:

Um.

550

:

It, it just felt authentic to who

she was or, you know, is at the time.

551

:

Um, I just wouldn't expect Lavender

who was dealing with, with, still

552

:

hadn't overcome a lot of stuff from

her past, still dealing with things.

553

:

Um, definitely someone who needed

therapy but had not, you know.

554

:

Mm-hmm.

555

:

Gone to therapy.

556

:

Mm-hmm.

557

:

I did not expect her to.

558

:

See Chris and, and go, oh yes, this is it.

559

:

I know this is what I'm deserving,

and, and I'll fall into your arms

560

:

and we'll be happily ever after.

561

:

And I, like, I just didn't see, and

it wouldn't have been authentic,

562

:

Octavia Marie: I don't think.

563

:

Monica McCollough: Right, right.

564

:

I, it wouldn't have been authentic.

565

:

I didn't see her seeing him like that.

566

:

I, I would see her fearing what Chris.

567

:

With me or, or could be like, ho oh shit.

568

:

Like, oh, sorry, can we cross on here?

569

:

Octavia Marie: Yes.

570

:

Monica McCollough: Sorry.

571

:

Like

572

:

Octavia Marie: we're,

we're, we're explicit.

573

:

Okay.

574

:

Like,

575

:

Monica McCollough: oh shit, I

don't know what to do with this

576

:

Chris thing, and I don't want it.

577

:

I want it, but I don't want it.

578

:

Like, this is too much

responsibility in a, in a sense.

579

:

Octavia Marie: And I think we've

all kind of been there, like, ooh.

580

:

Mm-hmm.

581

:

But again, that goes to

that control and trust.

582

:

Aspect, and you have to be

willing to be vulnerable.

583

:

And in order to do that, there is so

much that lavender has to process.

584

:

And then unlearn.

585

:

She can't even unlearn it until

she even processes what it is.

586

:

Monica McCollough: Right.

587

:

And it's the fear of success in a way too.

588

:

Mm-hmm.

589

:

Yeah.

590

:

Yeah.

591

:

That fear of success, like, oh,

if this works out, then this is,

592

:

more of a demand on me to make

sure this continues to work out.

593

:

Mm-hmm.

594

:

You know, I don't know if

I can handle that pressure.

595

:

I don't want to handle that pressure.

596

:

So,

597

:

Octavia Marie: so let's

pivot a little bit.

598

:

You, um, self-published this songs

of Lost Things independently.

599

:

Which is incredible 'cause you

that, I mean, that means you

600

:

are responsible for everything.

601

:

What was that process?

602

:

I can't even imagine because

self-publishing means you wear

603

:

a lot of hats from writing,

edit, design and marketing.

604

:

Like, what was that process like for you?

605

:

Monica McCollough: the

publishing part of it?

606

:

Ironically was the easy part in a sense.

607

:

Mm-hmm.

608

:

Because, again, my background.

609

:

Is designer artist, so I didn't have

to find a cover artist or mm-hmm.

610

:

Anybody to lay it out.

611

:

Did You're amazing artist.

612

:

Thank you.

613

:

Thank you.

614

:

Um, and I'm like,

615

:

Octavia Marie: can I have

a print of that cover?

616

:

That's a beautiful cover.

617

:

Yes.

618

:

Yes.

619

:

Monica McCollough: so of course you can.

620

:

I, you know, I did all of that.

621

:

I.

622

:

Found an amazing editor,

um, Christy Glasgow.

623

:

Um, look her up on Instagram

and all the socials, but, um.

624

:

She did the editing for me.

625

:

She did the three stages of the

editing, developmental, um, line

626

:

copy, proofreading, and all of that.

627

:

so, you know, all of that is out

of my, well, the editing part

628

:

is definitely outta my pocket.

629

:

The, the design part was not so anybody

self-publishing, you have to consider

630

:

that you have to pay for the, the

cover art you have to pay for at least.

631

:

Two rounds of editing, I would

say, if you don't do three or four.

632

:

So, um, but with that expense

and everything, yes, it is.

633

:

I control it.

634

:

I, I, mm-hmm.

635

:

I'm also in control of the

marketing and the marketing part

636

:

is the most challenging part.

637

:

Is that

638

:

Octavia Marie: the, I was gonna

say, is that the most challenge?

639

:

It, it has to be,

640

:

Monica McCollough: yes.

641

:

The publishing was easy.

642

:

You know, I'm not gonna say that's

easy for everybody, but that part

643

:

was pretty easy For me, the marketing

is, is more difficult just simply

644

:

because, there's so much Noise.

645

:

And I'm not saying noise in a negative

way, but it's just so much noise

646

:

everywhere out there is, is you know that

you have to be present on this platform

647

:

and that platform, and you need to be

buying ads to run here and there, and

648

:

you need to go to this event and you

need to post multiple times a day on

649

:

several platforms and yada, yada, yada.

650

:

And you can do all of that.

651

:

And still not.

652

:

While life is

653

:

Octavia Marie: life and then you

still have to work and do right.

654

:

And you still work your full-time

thing and life, life, right?

655

:

Monica McCollough: You still have to

work, you still have your, your personal

656

:

things going on, which, uh, was happening

with me, I would say right at the, the

657

:

peak of when I needed to be marketing.

658

:

Um, and that, that kind of slowed me down

on a lot of stuff and yeah, you know.

659

:

You could do all of those

things and still not.

660

:

Get a lot of traction because mm-hmm.

661

:

There's so much noise and

then algorithms change on you.

662

:

Like, you know, at, at one point it's,

oh, post reels, that's what you need.

663

:

And then you, you put all this energy

into, into reels, and then it's carousels.

664

:

Yes.

665

:

And then it's, now it's

characters YouTube, and now

666

:

it's threads and it is just.

667

:

A lot it, the marketing part was most

definitely, and it continues to be

668

:

the most difficult part for me, to the

point where I just, I'm not saying that.

669

:

I have not given up on marketing for,

for the people who would be listening.

670

:

I have not given up on marketing,

but as far as trying to do all the

671

:

things that I just listed, mm-hmm.

672

:

I just could not, I could not, because

again, going back to when I was like

673

:

at the peak of when I should have been

marketing a lot of, or doing all the

674

:

things, I had some personal stuff going

on with my, with my mom and health

675

:

stuff, with myself and with her, and

I just literally could not, and I was.

676

:

Tired.

677

:

And so yeah.

678

:

Now I'm just kind of, you get

what you get at this point.

679

:

You get what you get.

680

:

Yeah,

681

:

Octavia Marie: and that's what I, and

that's what a lot of, you know, as you

682

:

know, my background is really in pr.

683

:

Mm-hmm.

684

:

But, but that's what

I tell people is that.

685

:

Especially starting out, you can

do stuff your, you know, yourself.

686

:

You don't necessarily have to hire

these big machines, but the key is

687

:

focusing on one or two of the things

because you can't do all the things

688

:

you overwhelm yourself trying to do.

689

:

All the things, but focus on, you

know, where, where's your story, you

690

:

know, going to get the most traction.

691

:

Where is your, where's your ideal people?

692

:

Where is your community?

693

:

Right?

694

:

And then that's what you focus on.

695

:

Um, because you can't, it, it's

like you said, it's so much out

696

:

there that, and it's so much noise.

697

:

Go where your, tribe is and focus there.

698

:

I'm not giving on that tickety talk.

699

:

It's just like,

700

:

I don't, I don't, it's not for me.

701

:

And I understand that's not for me because

I can, you know, I can do a carousel, I

702

:

can do the writing, I can do this, and

I can, I can, you know, edit a reel.

703

:

But I think, but for

TikTok works a lot better.

704

:

It, it's, it's a real authentic thing.

705

:

So when you're.

706

:

Like live as you go it.

707

:

It doesn't work for

like curated film preed.

708

:

That's not really necessarily, I.

709

:

For TikTok, but it

710

:

Monica McCollough: mm-hmm.

711

:

Octavia Marie: it is just a lot.

712

:

And I was like, focus on like,

you know, one or two your best.

713

:

Where you to get the most

traction, where you getting the

714

:

most community support from?

715

:

Then focus on that, and that's where you

focus your energies on if, is it reals

716

:

or is it carousels or is it stories?

717

:

Because I personally think, and it just

depends on what you're trying to do.

718

:

Um, with your audience.

719

:

But see, I done went on a rant here,

720

:

Monica McCollough: like, but no,

no, I'm, I'm listening because

721

:

obviously I, I still need this.

722

:

I do not, I don't have the, the,

the following that I wish I had,

723

:

because again, I'm just starting,

so I'm listening and I'm still

724

:

trying to learn this as I go.

725

:

As someone who.

726

:

Again, as a designer, mostly a

designer and a visual artist.

727

:

I was a behind kid offline.

728

:

Right.

729

:

I was behind the scenes

little strategy offline.

730

:

Yeah.

731

:

I'm, I'm behind the camera.

732

:

Behind the scenes type person.

733

:

Yeah.

734

:

So being out front, I, I

just, you know, and see

735

:

Octavia Marie: that means, TikTok and

reels might not be your lane, right.

736

:

Your lane may be carousels and the

written part of it and, and, and, and

737

:

it could be, um, the stories part of

it and, you know, maybe threads and

738

:

the, the, the writing aspect of it.

739

:

'cause you are really, like,

you are, you are funny online.

740

:

So

741

:

I.

742

:

For you then it might not be, but TikTok

and reels might not be, and reels can

743

:

be your thing, but you, it has to, it

has to be just done in a different way.

744

:

you know, different styles work for

different people, so you focus on

745

:

what works for you and where you're

comfortable and then you make it work

746

:

for you that way instead of trying

to do what everybody else is doing.

747

:

And, but you do it in a way

that makes sense for you.

748

:

You know.

749

:

Right.

750

:

We're the same that way, I think.

751

:

Mm-hmm.

752

:

Monica McCollough: Right.

753

:

And I know, I know we gotta move on.

754

:

But I was gonna say to, uh, new

indie authors, That's just coming

755

:

along the, the funniest thing

about TikTok and reels and stuff.

756

:

And that's why I was just

kinda like, you know what?

757

:

I gotta, I just gotta be Authentic and

be me and hope the right, define me.

758

:

Mm-hmm.

759

:

Is that exactly most of my engagement?

760

:

And not that I did a ton of videos like

this, uh, but most of my engagement

761

:

on, on a specific video would come

when I'm doing something trendy.

762

:

Like, is there's a trendy

song that everybody's using

763

:

or some, uh, trend or, or.

764

:

Not dance.

765

:

'cause I didn't really do

dances like that, but I would

766

:

try to tie it into my book.

767

:

Mm-hmm.

768

:

But that's when I would, or, or

I would get the most engagement

769

:

when it was something like that

and it was unrelated to my book.

770

:

And then you would do something

with your book, like a video like

771

:

that would have, you know, a.

772

:

Thousands of views and then you do

something in your book and it's like

773

:

50 views and like it's kind of, I don't

want new people to be discouraged because

774

:

that's the experience of all of us.

775

:

Like, um, when you hear indie office

talking on TikTok or Instagram or

776

:

wherever, that's what we all experience.

777

:

We get the most engagement

where we're doing.

778

:

The random thing that's trending.

779

:

Mm-hmm.

780

:

And then we were like,

Hey, I'm glad you're here.

781

:

Come look at this book real quick.

782

:

And it's like 50 views.

783

:

And like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

784

:

So anyway.

785

:

Octavia Marie: before we wrap up, I

wanted to do like a quick lightning round.

786

:

And you just answer what the

question that comes to your mind.

787

:

Okay.

788

:

What song would be the theme

music for your writing process?

789

:

Monica McCollough: Ooh.

790

:

Octavia Marie: You like, you got

this music, you said the writing,

791

:

sometimes was, inspired by the music.

792

:

So like, what's your theme?

793

:

Music.

794

:

Monica McCollough: Hmm.

795

:

I don't know if I have one particular

song, but it would have to be

796

:

almost anything from I.

797

:

The Curtis Mayfield catalog.

798

:

Octavia Marie: Okay.

799

:

Okay.

800

:

Yes.

801

:

Almost anything.

802

:

I expected that from you knowing

like some of your music tastes of

803

:

seeing what you've talked about.

804

:

I, that one, that was a shocker for me.

805

:

Monica McCollough: Yeah.

806

:

Like that man was a musical

genius and he's not spoken

807

:

about enough, in my opinion.

808

:

I agree.

809

:

I agree.

810

:

Yeah, it's, it's timeless.

811

:

So anything.

812

:

It could be, it sounds futuristic,

it sounds from the past, it sounds

813

:

modern, it sounds all of that.

814

:

So it can represent so many things.

815

:

Octavia Marie: Agreed.

816

:

Monica McCollough: Yeah.

817

:

Octavia Marie: what character

from your book would you most

818

:

want to have dinner with?

819

:

Monica McCollough: Well, from a,

a very vain standpoint or shallow

820

:

standpoint, I would wanna have,

I would wanna have dinner with

821

:

Chris just so I can look at him.

822

:

'cause the way I described

him, that man was fine.

823

:

Octavia Marie: Do we,

Chris, like, is he inspired?

824

:

Right?

825

:

Was Chris inspired, was he completely

made up or was Chris inspired?

826

:

I was like, is Chris my new?

827

:

Or was

828

:

Monica McCollough: he just made up?

829

:

an amalgamation of, of, several people.

830

:

you know, there's some people

that follow on Instagram and I

831

:

was like, Hmm, you know what?

832

:

I could see that.

833

:

So, I

834

:

Octavia Marie: guess probably, probably,

835

:

maybe Catherine, honestly, really?

836

:

Monica McCollough: Mm-hmm.

837

:

Just, I just would wanna get her,

because we get lavender's perspective

838

:

throughout the book, you know?

839

:

mm-hmm.

840

:

It's, it's mostly written from her

perspective, but I would, I would

841

:

really wanna know what Katherine was

feeling throughout this time and.

842

:

why was difficult or I kind of explained

why it was difficult, for her to kind

843

:

of get over that hump, but mm-hmm.

844

:

What eventually drew her out of it?

845

:

you know, after so much time.

846

:

Okay.

847

:

That

848

:

Octavia Marie: and how did she,

849

:

Monica McCollough: yeah.

850

:

How to see,

851

:

Octavia Marie: I can see that.

852

:

Monica McCollough: Wanna move forward?

853

:

Yeah.

854

:

Octavia Marie: what book do you wish

you could read again for the first time?

855

:

Hmm,

856

:

probably, if it's

857

:

Monica McCollough: not, and I

hadn't read this in a long time,

858

:

but if it's not things fall apart,

it's It's probably home going.

859

:

Two, that's still one

of my favorite books.

860

:

And it's, another story that spans mm-hmm.

861

:

A massive amount of time, like, you know,

mine is just roughly 20 years or so,

862

:

you're talking here centuries, and she

just does an amazing job of, I feel like

863

:

you're in each character's shoes, even

though you only spend a chapter with them.

864

:

Octavia Marie: coffee, tea or

something else when you're writing.

865

:

Ooh.

866

:

You be drinking a brown

liquor when you rain?

867

:

Monica McCollough: No, because

I need a, I need a clear head.

868

:

as far as that goes, as far as that

might, you know, dip into some, some other

869

:

shrooms or something else to open my mind

a fusion or of a beverage, but, uh Okay.

870

:

You with the functional Yeah.

871

:

Some tea.

872

:

Yeah, some tea or, or maybe a little, uh.

873

:

You know, lion Mane.

874

:

Ain't nothing wrong with that.

875

:

Okay.

876

:

You know?

877

:

Yeah.

878

:

I'm a

879

:

Octavia Marie: functional, I'm

a functional drinker herb too.

880

:

Yeah.

881

:

Yeah.

882

:

So, you know, I'm all with that.

883

:

For creative work,

early bird or night owl,

884

:

Monica McCollough: most of my ideas come

to me very, very late, like night out.

885

:

Mm-hmm.

886

:

Um, the ideas.

887

:

But as far as

888

:

Octavia Marie: I think, I think

889

:

Monica McCollough: most

890

:

Octavia Marie: creatives

are like that though.

891

:

Monica McCollough: Yeah.

892

:

As far as getting them out

in a, in a clear manner.

893

:

I found surprisingly to me, that

that was early in, like before noon.

894

:

Okay.

895

:

'cause after that girl,

that's not early birth.

896

:

Well, no.

897

:

Well, I mean, I'm just, I'm just saying

like, I, Definitely before:

898

:

most certainly before noon at the latest.

899

:

Okay.

900

:

'cause anything afternoon,

I'm just like, no.

901

:

It's not working.

902

:

Yeah.

903

:

Well,

904

:

Octavia Marie: Monica, thank you so

much for this insightful conversation.

905

:

We've been trying to

get this scheduled for.

906

:

I'm glad I finally got able to,

was able to talk to you about it.

907

:

I had so many things.

908

:

I was just writing notes as I was.

909

:

I'm, I'm one of those crazy people

that when I get to read a book like

910

:

this, I'm writing notes in the, in

the, and I had to go to prepare for

911

:

this, and I'm going back to the, the

notes in my book, like, oh wait, a.

912

:

So thank you, thank you,

thank you, thank you.

913

:

Your journey as both a creative

storyteller and and visual artist and

914

:

independent artist is very inspiring.

915

:

I was like, am I gonna

write a my book finally?

916

:

Yeah, do it.

917

:

You totally.

918

:

I was like, ah, just watching

you go through this part.

919

:

I was like, uh.

920

:

But it's been truly inspiring,

just watching you kind of.

921

:

Like it all come together

and then finally see the, the

922

:

finished product was so amazing.

923

:

thank you.

924

:

But before we go, please remind

us where we can find songs of Lost

925

:

Things, Sonata for the Sun, and how

they can't connect with you online.

926

:

Monica McCollough: Okay, well, my book is

on Amazon, but I know how we're feeling

927

:

about Amazon right now, so, uh, you know,

928

:

Octavia Marie: it's still supporting.

929

:

I hate it.

930

:

Um, I, I, I, well, let me first say,

I know yours is on Amazon, but I have

931

:

also, it's also available on bookshop,

on my website org, on your website.

932

:

For independent, independent author and

bookstore, give the people your website.

933

:

Monica McCollough: Yes, it

is monica mccullough.com

934

:

and that's

M-O-N-I-C-A-M-C-C-O-L-L-O-U-G-H.

935

:

Uh, you know, a lot of people put that

u in, there's different ways you spell

936

:

it, but it's with an o mccullough.com

937

:

and if you get the book through my

website, um, it'll be signed and have

938

:

a signed copy, and plus you can sign

up for, you know, news and newsletters.

939

:

I do not sign.

940

:

Sign, uh, send out a bunch of emails.

941

:

You do not have to worry about that.

942

:

Uh, but when I have news, you

will be the first to know.

943

:

You can also find me on Instagram.

944

:

I am, I'm definitely there at Moni.

945

:

That's MONI, shy writer,

S-H-Y-W-R-I-T-E-R.

946

:

Um, Instagram mony shy writer on threads,

obviously under the same, um, name and.

947

:

Uh, I'm on the.

948

:

You know, trying to figure out what I'm

gonna do on the TikTok, but I am on v um,

949

:

and it's Monie do shy writer, I believe.

950

:

So it's either Mony, shy

writer, or Monie do shy writer.

951

:

But Monie Shy Rider is what I

usually use on social medias to,

952

:

to try to get my stuff out there.

953

:

Octavia Marie: I'll link

and I'll link everything.

954

:

Everything will be linked, is linked

in the notes, um, where you can.

955

:

Purchase.

956

:

I highly recommend that you

pick up a copy of songs of Lost

957

:

Things, Sonata for the Sun.

958

:

It's beautifully written.

959

:

It's emotionally resonant story

that will stay with you long after

960

:

you've turned the final page.

961

:

This has been the Culture Lit Podcast.

962

:

I'm Octavia, and we'll be back next week

with another conversation about the books

963

:

that move us and the stories behind them.

964

:

Until then, keep reading, keep

reflecting, and keep celebrating

965

:

the power of literature.

966

:

Bye

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Culture Lit
A Black Romance Books Podcast

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Octavia Dosier